You Can Be Who? The story of Crass Records and Captain Sensible’s Unlikely 1981 Collaboration
By 1981, Captain Sensible was already a relatively well-known name in the music industry. Having spent the past 5 years establishing a career through his main act, The Damned, it was at this point that he set off to pursue his first proper solo EP. The record was cleverly titled “This Is Your Captain Speaking” and the cover featured a bizarre photomontage of Captain’s face on a rabbit head. The label behind it’s release was none other than the highly esteemed leaders of the underground at the time: Crass Records.
The present-day consensus would be that both The Damned and Crass are undisputed classics—pioneers of their respective niches, mutually respected across various demographics of music fans. But in 1981, The Damned and Crass were coming from very different ends of the punk spectrum. The division of those scenes was not only palpable, it could also be quite charged and even volatile at times.
While this dichotomy is far less pronounced in 2020, one thing that has stayed consistent over the past 39 years is that this single continues to remain a total anomaly amongst the rest of the Crass Records catalog. It sticks out like a sore thumb with teashades and a red beret on top.
Anyone who has flipped past this disc at a record shop can probably attest to it’s aura: it presents itself as a gimmick record, a goof, a silly joke. While this might not have been unusual for someone like Captain Sensible, it appears to go against the attitudes upheld by Crass and the bands they choose to work with on their label.
Chances are, most Crass fans never gave it much of a shot at the time, and that dismissiveness seems to ring true to this day.
But how can one not be somewhat curious about this record? Everything from the comical cover art to the glaring fact that it even exists, the fact that it ever came to fruition! Captain Sensible was the only artist to ever be released by Crass Records while simultaneously having an established and successful commercial career beyond that. So how, and why, did a bigger name like Captain Sensible find himself back in the heart of the underground in spite of the growing rift between the scenes? And how and why would a discerning entity such as Crass even entertain the idea?
A quick online search will bring up numerous interviews where Captain speaks of Crass, and particularly, the moment in his life where he crossed paths with the group in the early 80’s. He cites this as a turning point in his personal journey, becoming creatively inspired, heightening his social awareness and setting him on a course he would remain on for years to come including adopting a vegetarian lifestyle and advocating for pacifist ideas.
In addition to impacting his world views, he has maintained an ongoing friendship with Penny Rimbaud throughout all these years as well.
While this EP was perhaps a one-off pursuance and both gents have gone their separate ways creatively, there is still a persistent sense of respect between the two. This mutual respect has prospered for nearly 40 years, all stemming from this singular chance encounter. In many ways this serves as a testament to the ongoing philosophy that Penny has often written about and strived to embody (See “Shibboleth” by Penny Rimbaud). It indicates that much can be changed by rising above differences and simply getting to know someone on a human level.
Negative Insight had the good fortune to speak with the man behind it all, Penny Rimbaud himself. He was gracious enough to recount this fascinating collision of worlds and reflect on what it meant to him in the context of his greater life’s work.
I assume you were familiar with The Damned prior to meeting Captain personally. What was your perception of them up until that point?
It was very unusual because Captain came from a completely different line of punk than Crass. As you would undoubtedly know, we had quite a contempt for the commercial side of punk which was represented by people like The Damned, The Clash, the Pistols, Siouxsie and the Banshees, etc, etc. They weren't "art punk" in the way that Television and Patti Smith were, whom I liked a lot as they had no pretentions about having any social agenda. They were very much involved in art and artistry so I could respect that, but I had no respect at all for the commercialization of "protest." So it was strange when Captain got in touch.
How did the idea for the collaboration come about?
The meeting point was when he was in Holland playing a festival with Little Annie Anxiety. They met up and talked about things and the Captain expressed his interest in actually "saying something" rather than just doing what The Damned did. While they did say "something," it wasn't very direct and it wasn't very much an expression of possibility or social change. I feel he wanted to make some kind of statement. So Annie suggested he get in touch with us, which he did, and that’s how it came about. We were always open to talking to people from all genres really, so his agenda fitted what we felt was the right thing for us to be doing. He turned out to be a really hard-working, fine-thinking guy. A lovely bloke to work with in fact.
In the liner notes of the "A Sides" CD you made it seem as simple as Captain calling you up and proposing the concept, but in interviews I’ve read with Captain he says this actually stemmed from a week-long stay at Dial House? He also cites this as his gateway to vegetarianism as well as pacifist ideas, both of which he continues to champion to this day.
To be honest I don't really remember. He hung around here; whether that was before or after the recording I really don't remember. He's been back on one or two occasions since then over the years.
I don't really remember the exact sequence of events, but certainly if he was here for a few days he would have become aware of the lifestyle here, which was very much based around cooperative activity, a deep sense of sharing. We didn't have rules, though at the time we were a vegetarian household as well as a drug-free household (not of any particular moral attitude rather more a knowledge that if drugs became active here we could get shut down).
We have tried to work on other projects over the years since then, none of them ever came to any real fruition, but every so often we'll maybe have an idea and consort on it and see whether or not we can get anywhere with it. Most of the stuff that has happened here has been out of laissez-faire, just letting things happen as they happen. Very little cynical preplanning about anything. People turned up and wanted to do something, if we could help we would do it, but even if we couldn't help we would probably still try to do it. It worked like that, it wasn't like we had a program or a plan.
There were things we wouldn't do, of course. If someone came along with some crap sexist or racist song, obviously we aren't going to go anywhere near it. It didn't mean we'd tell them to piss off, it meant, "We aren't going to release anything you do." Because our belief has always been "allowance." If people want to think crap right-wing thoughts, that's their business, but if they're here they are going to get exposed to other ways of thinking, which might, could and will influence them in some way.
So we are very much open to people from every particular section, even if their thoughts disgust me personally, for example. I prefer to talk with someone whose thoughts disgust me than to say, "Ah what a fucking wanker!" and not relate. If you close the door on what you say is your opposition then what chance do you actually got of actually changing that polarity? You aren't going to do it with a bullet and you aren't going to do it with a slammed door. You are going to do it with some sense of sensitivity, love and understanding. That works.
Anyways, that's going off the subject.
No, I think it goes back to the overarching mission with everything you have done. By opening the door and welcoming someone in, even from within the punk subculture, you stand a far greater chance of opening people's minds than you would by adhering to the perceived polarization. That being said, I do feel there was something about The Damned that resonated with people. It set them apart from their commercial peers at the time. Perhaps it is their personality of the band members, such as the Captain who clearly was open minded enough to engage in this idea. He, just as much as you, could have been judgmental and never even entertained speaking to each other. But through that, you formed a bond, you exposed him to some ideas that seem to have stuck with him to this day, and on top of that you have this cool little artifact of the moment.
Yeah (laughs).
It has always stood out in the Crass records catalog because it was the only single that came out at the time where the artist had an established career before that release.
Yeah, I think that's true. He was from a different background and already had something going for him.
Understanding Crass and knowing just the general attitude towards punk at the time, while I'm sure you weren't concerned with what people thought about it, I'm sure there were quite a few people who scratched their heads in puzzlement to see someone like Captain doing a release with Crass. How do you feel it was received at the time?
Not as massively selling as I probably imagined it might be. I thought compared to all the other stuff we were putting out at the time, which was quite a lot, I thought that perhaps because it was The Captain that it would sell very well. Not that I am concerned about sales, but it certainly did not move anywhere near the degree I thought it might.
We used to sell a lot of records at one time, and any single that we put out would sell pretty well almost regardless of what was on it. I think by then people were beginning to trust our judgement. People were trusting with what we were doing. So I don't think it caused any particular stir. It might have in the music press, but I never read the music press so I don't know what they might have thought about it. No interest really.
For what it's worth, as a standalone EP, it's great. The songs are catchy, it's a great performance, it gave you an opportunity to do some varied styles of drumming. I imagine as a musician it must have also just been nice to spread your wings a bit and play different stuff.
Well, to be honest I never regarded myself as a musician. I hardly ever regarded myself as a drummer. I just whacked things to suit whatever I thought would suit it. I was a much better avant-garde jazz drummer than ever I was a punk or rock'n'roll drummer. I can't do that stuff to be honest. I developed a style with Crass. I had two rhythms: fast or slow, and that was about it. The Captain wanted me to do some particular patterns which I have to say I found bloody hard. Had to keep going back and doing it again. I never was good at those sort of runs drummers do, partly because I don't think I'm interested. In that respect I always used to always love Ringo of the Beatles’ drumming because he didn't fall for that rock'n'roll stuff either. It was always on some slightly strange pattern, which is much more interesting to my jazz ears than most rock'n'roll stuff.
I would say that "strangeness" is present on this record.
Yeah, yeah! It would have to be because I can't avoid it.
The main thing about the recording that I remember, apart from the fact of having to write lyrics whilst I was also trying to produce and help the whole thing run through: We took two days recording that, when normally we would be able to record a single in a day (not mix it, but you know, just record it). Notably we started one of his solos at something like getting on from midnight. At 4:00 in the morning he was absolutely out of his head with drink, insisting on doing yet another take. I don't know how many takes we did. It was probably 20 takes? In the end we actually chose the first one he did! So we'd really just been entertained for most of the night by the Captain being utterly self-indulgent, basically, but we enjoyed it.
He then went off to bed saying, "Well, this is the tune for tomorrow, and I want some lyrics," which was "The Man Who’s Got It All." So I was up until breakfast time writing that. He eventually fell out of bed at...I don't know when. It was a hard weekend, that's what I’m trying to say (laughs).
But it was worth it! I really like the results. It was quite a bohemian weekend, I'll put it that way.
There are a few other collaborators credited on this release, such as the group Dolly Mixture doing backing vocals.
Originally Eve Libertine did the backing vocals, which I thought were actually better. I'm not quite sure who the Dolly Mixture were, I think it was three young women, and I didn't think they were anywhere near as good as Eve, but the Captain did and it was his call, basically, so I think that's what we used. I think Eve actually does appear somewhere on it, but I can't remember now.
There was also someone named "Tasha" credited with doing solo vocals on the EP.
Ah Tasha, yeah! She was John Loder's young daughter. She was the one who sings what seems to be a prayer which is full of sexual innuendos ("Oursouls To You"). When she grew up to be a teenager she got to understand actually what the words were saying. (Laughing) She sort of feigned crossness with me, and said I was an absolute bastard for using her like that. I did have a bit of a question about it, I must admit, but I think it was worth it. She assured me it wasn't a scarring or hurt, she was pretty open about it.
So yeah, that was John's daughter. I can't remember, she did another piece for us too. I've always loved very young voices. I used to do chorus myself so I always had a love of the sound of young voices. I like the innocence.
Did she appear on an actual Crass release?
She did, but I can't remember exactly what it was now.
Were there any rehearsals with yourself and Captain before entering the studio?
Oh no, no, we didn't rehearse. We just did it.
That makes more sense why it maybe took two days to record as opposed to the normal single day session.
Well, that was generally the case when I produced. I might have heard a demo, but we always started from scratch and very often I would suggest a band taking a completely different angle than they were taking on their demos. It was always pretty full-on creativity in that sense. There were very few bands who came in knowing precisely what they wanted to do and doing it. Most of them had sort of half an idea what they might want to do. It was like that in those days. There were people like KUKL who knew what they wanted to do, they were a very professional band, but generally speaking, most of the people who came in needed help on virtually every level.
Speaking of KUKL, I know that Andy had done the artwork for those releases. He is credited with doing the artwork for the Captain release as well. Just a question about the creative process: how was it generally determined who would take on the artwork for a release?
Everyone had a bash at it in one way or another. Quite a few of the band were ex-art school. We were all pretty adept at that stuff. So generally speaking, Gee did the actual poster work and quite usually the cover work because that was probably a reflection of the poster. A lot of the ornamentation was done by any one of us who felt we wanted to do it, basically.
In fact, it was Gee who did the photograph montage of the Captain on the front of that record, but all the rest was probably done by Andy. Again it was completely laissez-faire. You know, someone might say, "I fancy having a bash at that," or Gee would say, "Look, I can't handle all of this, could someone design the second page?" That sort of thing. It was always pretty relaxed.
There's a lot of humor in the cover. Obviously that is part of Captain's persona, he has that kind of Jester vibe. It's another thing that sets this apart from most of the catalog where things are either quite solemn and serious or more abstract.
Yeah, definitely. It was much more, if you like, in sort of the "Pop Domain." I think Zounds were a bit like that in having a poppy ring to it, and Omega Tribe were a little bit poppy too. So it had that slightly different atmosphere to the hardcore people who might just as well be in the street lobbing rocks than playing on a stage. So yeah, there was a broad spectrum.
I just remembered. Actually I first visited the Captain in Croydon, which is South of London, before he ever came out here. When he first got in touch I said, "Why don't I come down and we can chat over it?" I was just thinking that because of the rabbit on the cover. When I got there he was sharing his ground-floor flat in Croydon with a rabbit, which seemed to like eating his equipment. That was before he came out here, that was where we first got to know each other.
I was going to ask about the rabbit theme. I wasn't sure if it was just some reference I wasn't getting.
I think, but I'm not sure, that the rabbit ears and the rabbit itself were actually photos of his (the Captain's) rabbit. I'm not sure though, I would have to check with him or Gee. But I'm pretty certain they were.
OK, that makes a lot more sense. As I said, I wasn't sure if it was a reference to something pertinent at the moment that was over my head. Lyrically speaking, of course, "The Russians Are Coming" is clearly touching on the Cold War, but what is the context of "(What D'Ya Give) The Man Who's Gotten Everything?"?
Well the context was exactly that. For some reason, Captain had come up with those two lines and it was me who was left at 4:00 in the morning to fill in the rest. Which I did, reasonably easily. But I think it was something he was genuinely wondering about. What do you give a man who’s gotten everything? I don't know who he was thinking about, I don't know what reference he was making. I think it was to do with the sort of stupidity of possessions. If someone's "got it all," it doesn't mean they got it all in the head, it just means they got it all in the pocket, basically. Maybe he was aware of the somewhat consumerist element like that. That's the line as I saw it, though, that's how I understood the two lines I was given to create verses for.
I suppose I was taking the "Money Can't Buy You Love," the old Beatles line. Money can't buy you happiness, it really can't. You can have everything in the world except some profound deep sense of yourself. So there's no point of having anything unless you got a profound deep understanding of yourself, of your inner self.
I imagine he must have been quite happy that you were able to take just a couple lines and flesh it out into something more substantial and inject some meaning into it. His knack was the hooks and the pop-appeal, but I'm not sure that sort of depth of concept was always there.
He was a great songwriter. He's always had an ear for a good tune, he's got a good ear on harmony. He is a very talented guy. He might be open for a lot more respect if he were perceived as part of the "Rock 'N' Roll Circus" rather than the "Punk Circus" because I think as a rock'n'roller he's pretty hot stuff. Good guitar player.
He is an excellent guitar player. As I said, I think The Damned sort of transcends the boundaries of the "circus". There seems to have always been some cross-appeal, be it people from punk, goth, heavy metal, rock'n'roll, even very casual music listeners who don't necessarily identify with a faction per se seem to enjoy The Damned.
Well they're catchy, aren't they?
Captain Sensible, London, Kings Cross 1988
I guess my last question would be how did this become billed as a Captain solo record versus some separate collaborative entity of the two of you. Was that how he wanted it or did you just feel it was better that way?
No, that's just how it was. I did everything I could as a producer and if that means playing the drums then that’s what I'll do. I played drums on some of Flux's stuff as well. That's the job of production, to bring in people or bring in yourself if you think you can do something to help. I've done backing vocals on countless things that I've worked on with people, etc, etc. It's something that I wouldn't dream of wanting credit for. It's just part of the job really.
So you see your role in this more as producer, rather than this being a piece of your creative output
Yeah, very much so. I produced it, but at the same time, yes, I wrote the lyrics and played the drums and an awful lot more, but that's not the point. The energy was the Captain's and that's what sometimes I think producers forget. The energy has to be from the artist, not from the producer. The producer can say, "Yeah you can do that louder," or "Maybe we need to bring in another drummer" or whatever, but the energy has to come from the artist whose album or single it is. If it doesn't, then you know, that's just music business stuff. Bring in some kids, tell them what to do and then sell the records. Well, you know that's crap.
The whole point of Crass Records was to help people find a way of doing what they wanted to do themselves. Showing them the ropes, if you like. That's why we never did albums with people, we would do a single with people and they would learn the ropes of what to do in a studio and they would go on to either create their own label or get on another label. We weren't interested in making money, we were interested in helping people become the person they wanted to be, and that was the same with the Captain. He wanted to do something outside of what he had always done before. The other members of the band were probably like, "Oh fuck off, we aren't going down that road." So he came to the obvious source. He knew we were the sort of people who might be receptive to his wishes, which we were.
There's no big deal about it, really. It's just how I have always lived, that's why there aren't locks on the doors. Helping to relieve suffering, uncomfort and unhappiness; that is the meaning of life. There isn't any other meaning to life except helping people. That's been my whole premise with Crass Records, with what I do now which some of it is an extension of Crass Records, and with what I do in the house. If I'm not doing it to help other people, what the hell am I doing it for? It’s as simple as that really.
Very special thanks to Penny for taking the time to speak with us. For those unfamiliar, Penny remains as active as ever with his creative output. You may follow his personal accounts for updates regarding his projects, as well as his daily musings and ongoing reflective wisdom:
Additional thanks to D. Joseph and EOH for their help with copyediting this article.
All photos used with permission:
Captain Sensible, London 1987 - Photo by Graham Stewart
Captain Sensible, London, Kings Cross 1988 - Photograph by Sean Longden
Photos of A-Sides CD and “This Is Your Captain Speaking” EP from the collection of NI Staff.
